The part that pisses me off is after all of that they were immune to the Kraken draft.
popculturetommy
They had a decent team when they drafted. A ton of veteran players that play well and the likes of Marchessault, Fleury, Neal and McNabb, who were all VERY good. Then they got guys like Reilly Smith, Alex Tuch and Shea Theodore (stupid fucking Ducks) in trades.
I never said this team would make the SCF that year but I did think they’d be a middle of the pack playoff team after that draft.
schmarkty
Remember they did a lot of “favours” for other teams by taking on some bad contracts. Bad contracts does not always equal bad players.
Striking_Economy5049
Pretty certain it was said at the time the draft rules were made for immediate success. Previous expansion drafts had rules far more favourable to existing teams.
s27m11
They were handed an extremely hard working and well balanced team. Something I am incredibly envious of as a Leafs fan whose team has all the talent in the world, minus the hard working and balanced part.
CosmicKnight2
Nah y’all are lying to yourselves if you thought Vegas would be any good back then. Nobody had them in the playoff hunt, let alone making the SCF. Every single article, magazine, etc. Had vegas picked at or near the bottom of the pacific. The whole « they were giftwrapped a good team » is revisionism and you are gaslighting yourselves to cope with the fact that Vegas did more in 1 year than Toronto did in over 50
shadownet97
It was pure luck that each player that ended up on the opening roster had sudden chemistry with one another and that they played as well as it did.
Let’s be real, did ANYONE genuinely think a team of outcasts would be that good?
Old_Cryptographer226
The only household name on the team was Fleury. The Kraken following their draft looked better than Vegas did immediately following theirs
Tiger5804
They weren’t handed superstars in the draft, they were handed a lot of good players and a lot of assets and enough cap space to acquire superstars.
BlueRFR3100
Expansion drafts have traditionally been a dumping ground for washed-up players. The result was that expansion teams sucked. That makes it hard to sell tickets to a new fan base.
With Vegas and Seatle, the NHL didn’t allow teams to protect as many players as had been protected in past drafts. The new teams were able to get better players and put a better team on the ice sooner.
Rogue_Einherjar
I’m tired of this excuse. Vegas didn’t get much in the way of big names, the players just banded together and played well as a team from the get-go. Fleury stood on his head for them, but Marchessault and Karlsson were unknowns who had career seasons. Seattle just constantly makes excuses because they got Grubauer and he has sucked for them. But they never rallies that team like they should have.
AnySail
Anyone who says they thought Vegas was going to be good is lying.
Everyone was dunking on how bad they were going to be at the time. Hindsight lets you look back and say they were underrated, and obviously the back room deals being made helped them, but no one thought they were good.
Flyguyflyby
OMG who gives a shit? It’s been 6 years.
Ahappyoldman
On the opening night roster they had 2 2-time all stars (Fleury and Neal) and 4 players that at that point had over a 50 point season (Marchessault, Perron, Smith, and Neal).
I’d be strapped to find an article post immediate draft that didn’t have the Knights finishing in the bottom three that season.
This was *Not* a good team on paper. Minus Fleury who even that, at that point of the year was considered washed and on the way out.
It’s all hindsight
Fickle_Percentage256
Vegas played the draft masterfully with what they were allowed and able to do.
Rodius_J
IMO, Florida really screwed the pooch on this one. They gave away Rielly Smith to get Vegas to take 30 goal winger Marsheshault… was wild when I saw the trade
regal_ragabash
Yes, and it’s entirely the fault of the other 30 teams. Looking at you Florida and Anaheim
s0ciety_a5under
We had an exceptionally great environment to be an expansion. I won’t lie about that, but 6 years later it was a vastly different team than what the expansion created. This season it’s looking hit or miss. We’ll probably get in the playoffs, but from there I can’t say.
PapasvhillyMonster
No one on that team was considered a “superstar”
Other than MAF
lightningmcmemex
They have proven to have a good management group and consistently competitive team. They weren’t handed anything.
guywithshades85
During the 90s, the NHL added 9 teams in just under a decade. That lowered the talent pool. Towards the end, teams like Atlanta, Nashville, Columbus and Minnesota had nothing but the scraps of the scraps of players to choose from. Also, there was no salary cap back then, so there was no incentive for teams to get rid of bad contracts. As a result, those teams took a long time before any of them had gotten any good.
Vegas benefited from not having been an expansion draft in awhile. More teams to pick players from. Existing teams being able to protect less players. And teams desperate to trade out bad contracts.
GrizzlyIsland22
They weren’t given a great team, though. Their opening roster was pretty ass. They built a great team after the draft. They added Theodore, Karlsson, Stone, Stastny, Pacioretty, Stephenson, Lehner, Hill, Pietrangelo, and more via trades or free agency
Giga1396
George McPhee is a goat exec
bistroexpress
If you go back and read the comments on their draft, everyone thought they made horrible moves. Kinda funny in hindsight to be proven that we know next to nothing compared to the professionals.
stephenlipic
I followed their inception in great detail.
Then GM George McPhee (and his team) deserves a lot of credit. He was gifted a brand new format for expansion draft and learned it inside and out.
Opposing teams were not really prepared for it, and McPhee managed to get a lot of negotiating leverage due to that lack of preparedness on the part of many GMs in the league.
The way he exploited this leverage is by negotiating with GMs who had players they couldn’t protect but didn’t want to lose, that they’d give up something else plus an extra pick or prospect.
The Knights ended up with Marchessault and selected Mike Reilly, which left Luongo, J. Jokinen, and Demers on the exposed list. Florida was a bit of a special situation so I’ll circle back.
Minnesota negotiated for the Knights to take Alex Tuch. Among the notable players left exposed was Eric Staal.
The Ducks negotiated for Vegas to take Shea Theodore, who ended up being a key part of their team initially, in exchange for leaving Clayton Stoner.
So part of McPhee’s job was predicting which players teams would expose, and working GMs who he knew wouldn’t be able to protect guys they really wanted to keep.
Now as for Florida, there was an extra little factor at play. In the years prior to the draft, ownership had changed. Vincent Viola bought the team in 2013 and he liked Tallon as GM. However, in 2016 an Oompa Loompa escaped from the Factory and became President, and appointed Viola as Secretary of the Army. A role that Viola ultimately declined due to complications “disentangling himself” from his businesses. Nevertheless, in April 2017 he sold the majority of his stake in the Panthers to Doug Cifu and Jordan Zimmerman.
One of the first actions taken by the new owners was removing Tallon from the role of GM. The new GM didn’t agree with some of Tallon’s prospect decisions, and this is why we see Marchessault and Reilly out the door in the expansion draft.
It is **also why** when Tallon was reinstated as GM in December of that year, that he immediately went about reacquainting players the previous GM had dumped or traded. Which confused a lot of people not really paying attention to the politics of the team.
So McPhee managed to successfully exploit panicky GMs, took advantage of teams in chaotic situations, and also made the best of his actual selections in the expansion draft.
McPhee also had a great media campaign with the players, promoting Vegas as a great place to come to for UFAs because they were a new team that would be building a great culture and where players wouldn’t have to worry about being dealt away. I’m serious, they actually sold themselves on this premise. **This is a major reason why they get so much hate these days, because they double-crossed a lot of guys who thought they’d be I. Vegas for years.**
They managed to bring in Engelland, Merrill, and Lindberg during free agency, which added to their depth. Particularly Engelland, who was pretty instrumental as a depth player for them, especially off the ice.
Also, the “trade deadline” acquisition of Ryan Reaves proved a huge addition for the Knights. Lots of guys that wouldn’t seem to push the needle on most teams made the most of expanded roles on a Vegas team that arguably wasn’t that deep (on paper).
Early in the season, the Knights benefitted from being much better than teams expected, which resulted in early season wins and also helped the team’s confidence and adherence to the coaching system put in place by Gerard Gallant. Gallant was also quickly able to earn the reputation as a “player’s coach” at a time when that wasn’t really a “good” reputation to have, but Vegas really showed it could make a positive difference.
I won’t get into specifics on players outperforming previous statistical success, but suffice to say almost everyone on that roster took on more significant roles than they’d previously held and stepped in at full speed without losing a step.
It was almost the perfect storm of situations working out perfectly for Vegas.
Hope that clarifies things somewhat.
T4kh1n1
Vegas basically got handed 4 lines that were all 2-3 line players. They had the most evenly dispersed skill in the league and could easily roll 4 lines and that helped them immensely.
NotTheATF1993
Who cares, Vegas played the hands they were dealt and it worked out for them. Its a lot better than having them be absolute ass for the first 6 years and not help grow the market.
BreakerOf_Chains
Vegas drafted assets they knew they could flip for other assets. They were just smarter than anyone anticipated initially.
tecate_papi
I remember that draft. I was following it during my graduation. I was also very confounded by the moves and by teams trading draft picks to avoid losing certain players. I didn’t see it at the time and I thought McPhee was a moron but I was wrong and he had a real vision a lot of people didn’t get. It’s the roadmap for expansion teams now.
nukfan94
Important rule of thumb: anyone who says they knew the 2017-18 Vegas Golden Knights were going to be good is a *fucking liar*.
Scissors4215
No. While they changed the draft rules to make the team more competitive early, no one thought they would be as good as they were.
SomeJerkOddball
One thing is for sure, Florida and Columbus were on drugs with what they let Vegas take.
Rough_Service_2073
Nobody ever said they were handed superstar players
Domermac
Vegas had some players that performed above expectations, but the real power move was all the draft capital they were given for NOT taking some players.
Here’s a list of the draft picks. An ok group at best. The trades are where the team did good.
Complex-Tangerine628
They weren’t “handed” anyone, but unless the GM and or Owners are geniuses it’s a bit sus that they were able to get Stone, Eichel, and Petro all in the span of 3 years…
Scaramoosh1
The biggest gift was Marc Andre fleury. Expansion teams are supposed to go like a decade before they get a solid goalie.
Maleficent_Gain3804
We struck deals to get players on contracts their teams didn’t want to fulfill
38 Comments
The part that pisses me off is after all of that they were immune to the Kraken draft.
They had a decent team when they drafted. A ton of veteran players that play well and the likes of Marchessault, Fleury, Neal and McNabb, who were all VERY good. Then they got guys like Reilly Smith, Alex Tuch and Shea Theodore (stupid fucking Ducks) in trades.
I never said this team would make the SCF that year but I did think they’d be a middle of the pack playoff team after that draft.
Remember they did a lot of “favours” for other teams by taking on some bad contracts. Bad contracts does not always equal bad players.
Pretty certain it was said at the time the draft rules were made for immediate success. Previous expansion drafts had rules far more favourable to existing teams.
They were handed an extremely hard working and well balanced team. Something I am incredibly envious of as a Leafs fan whose team has all the talent in the world, minus the hard working and balanced part.
Nah y’all are lying to yourselves if you thought Vegas would be any good back then. Nobody had them in the playoff hunt, let alone making the SCF. Every single article, magazine, etc. Had vegas picked at or near the bottom of the pacific. The whole « they were giftwrapped a good team » is revisionism and you are gaslighting yourselves to cope with the fact that Vegas did more in 1 year than Toronto did in over 50
It was pure luck that each player that ended up on the opening roster had sudden chemistry with one another and that they played as well as it did.
Let’s be real, did ANYONE genuinely think a team of outcasts would be that good?
The only household name on the team was Fleury. The Kraken following their draft looked better than Vegas did immediately following theirs
They weren’t handed superstars in the draft, they were handed a lot of good players and a lot of assets and enough cap space to acquire superstars.
Expansion drafts have traditionally been a dumping ground for washed-up players. The result was that expansion teams sucked. That makes it hard to sell tickets to a new fan base.
With Vegas and Seatle, the NHL didn’t allow teams to protect as many players as had been protected in past drafts. The new teams were able to get better players and put a better team on the ice sooner.
I’m tired of this excuse. Vegas didn’t get much in the way of big names, the players just banded together and played well as a team from the get-go. Fleury stood on his head for them, but Marchessault and Karlsson were unknowns who had career seasons. Seattle just constantly makes excuses because they got Grubauer and he has sucked for them. But they never rallies that team like they should have.
Anyone who says they thought Vegas was going to be good is lying.
Everyone was dunking on how bad they were going to be at the time. Hindsight lets you look back and say they were underrated, and obviously the back room deals being made helped them, but no one thought they were good.
OMG who gives a shit? It’s been 6 years.
On the opening night roster they had 2 2-time all stars (Fleury and Neal) and 4 players that at that point had over a 50 point season (Marchessault, Perron, Smith, and Neal).
I’d be strapped to find an article post immediate draft that didn’t have the Knights finishing in the bottom three that season.
This was *Not* a good team on paper. Minus Fleury who even that, at that point of the year was considered washed and on the way out.
It’s all hindsight
Vegas played the draft masterfully with what they were allowed and able to do.
IMO, Florida really screwed the pooch on this one. They gave away Rielly Smith to get Vegas to take 30 goal winger Marsheshault… was wild when I saw the trade
Yes, and it’s entirely the fault of the other 30 teams. Looking at you Florida and Anaheim
We had an exceptionally great environment to be an expansion. I won’t lie about that, but 6 years later it was a vastly different team than what the expansion created. This season it’s looking hit or miss. We’ll probably get in the playoffs, but from there I can’t say.
No one on that team was considered a “superstar”
Other than MAF
They have proven to have a good management group and consistently competitive team. They weren’t handed anything.
During the 90s, the NHL added 9 teams in just under a decade. That lowered the talent pool. Towards the end, teams like Atlanta, Nashville, Columbus and Minnesota had nothing but the scraps of the scraps of players to choose from. Also, there was no salary cap back then, so there was no incentive for teams to get rid of bad contracts. As a result, those teams took a long time before any of them had gotten any good.
Vegas benefited from not having been an expansion draft in awhile. More teams to pick players from. Existing teams being able to protect less players. And teams desperate to trade out bad contracts.
They weren’t given a great team, though. Their opening roster was pretty ass. They built a great team after the draft. They added Theodore, Karlsson, Stone, Stastny, Pacioretty, Stephenson, Lehner, Hill, Pietrangelo, and more via trades or free agency
George McPhee is a goat exec
If you go back and read the comments on their draft, everyone thought they made horrible moves. Kinda funny in hindsight to be proven that we know next to nothing compared to the professionals.
I followed their inception in great detail.
Then GM George McPhee (and his team) deserves a lot of credit. He was gifted a brand new format for expansion draft and learned it inside and out.
Opposing teams were not really prepared for it, and McPhee managed to get a lot of negotiating leverage due to that lack of preparedness on the part of many GMs in the league.
The way he exploited this leverage is by negotiating with GMs who had players they couldn’t protect but didn’t want to lose, that they’d give up something else plus an extra pick or prospect.
The Knights ended up with Marchessault and selected Mike Reilly, which left Luongo, J. Jokinen, and Demers on the exposed list. Florida was a bit of a special situation so I’ll circle back.
Minnesota negotiated for the Knights to take Alex Tuch. Among the notable players left exposed was Eric Staal.
The Ducks negotiated for Vegas to take Shea Theodore, who ended up being a key part of their team initially, in exchange for leaving Clayton Stoner.
So part of McPhee’s job was predicting which players teams would expose, and working GMs who he knew wouldn’t be able to protect guys they really wanted to keep.
Now as for Florida, there was an extra little factor at play. In the years prior to the draft, ownership had changed. Vincent Viola bought the team in 2013 and he liked Tallon as GM. However, in 2016 an Oompa Loompa escaped from the Factory and became President, and appointed Viola as Secretary of the Army. A role that Viola ultimately declined due to complications “disentangling himself” from his businesses. Nevertheless, in April 2017 he sold the majority of his stake in the Panthers to Doug Cifu and Jordan Zimmerman.
One of the first actions taken by the new owners was removing Tallon from the role of GM. The new GM didn’t agree with some of Tallon’s prospect decisions, and this is why we see Marchessault and Reilly out the door in the expansion draft.
It is **also why** when Tallon was reinstated as GM in December of that year, that he immediately went about reacquainting players the previous GM had dumped or traded. Which confused a lot of people not really paying attention to the politics of the team.
So McPhee managed to successfully exploit panicky GMs, took advantage of teams in chaotic situations, and also made the best of his actual selections in the expansion draft.
McPhee also had a great media campaign with the players, promoting Vegas as a great place to come to for UFAs because they were a new team that would be building a great culture and where players wouldn’t have to worry about being dealt away. I’m serious, they actually sold themselves on this premise. **This is a major reason why they get so much hate these days, because they double-crossed a lot of guys who thought they’d be I. Vegas for years.**
They managed to bring in Engelland, Merrill, and Lindberg during free agency, which added to their depth. Particularly Engelland, who was pretty instrumental as a depth player for them, especially off the ice.
Also, the “trade deadline” acquisition of Ryan Reaves proved a huge addition for the Knights. Lots of guys that wouldn’t seem to push the needle on most teams made the most of expanded roles on a Vegas team that arguably wasn’t that deep (on paper).
Early in the season, the Knights benefitted from being much better than teams expected, which resulted in early season wins and also helped the team’s confidence and adherence to the coaching system put in place by Gerard Gallant. Gallant was also quickly able to earn the reputation as a “player’s coach” at a time when that wasn’t really a “good” reputation to have, but Vegas really showed it could make a positive difference.
I won’t get into specifics on players outperforming previous statistical success, but suffice to say almost everyone on that roster took on more significant roles than they’d previously held and stepped in at full speed without losing a step.
It was almost the perfect storm of situations working out perfectly for Vegas.
Hope that clarifies things somewhat.
Vegas basically got handed 4 lines that were all 2-3 line players. They had the most evenly dispersed skill in the league and could easily roll 4 lines and that helped them immensely.
Who cares, Vegas played the hands they were dealt and it worked out for them. Its a lot better than having them be absolute ass for the first 6 years and not help grow the market.
Vegas drafted assets they knew they could flip for other assets. They were just smarter than anyone anticipated initially.
I remember that draft. I was following it during my graduation. I was also very confounded by the moves and by teams trading draft picks to avoid losing certain players. I didn’t see it at the time and I thought McPhee was a moron but I was wrong and he had a real vision a lot of people didn’t get. It’s the roadmap for expansion teams now.
Important rule of thumb: anyone who says they knew the 2017-18 Vegas Golden Knights were going to be good is a *fucking liar*.
No. While they changed the draft rules to make the team more competitive early, no one thought they would be as good as they were.
One thing is for sure, Florida and Columbus were on drugs with what they let Vegas take.
Nobody ever said they were handed superstar players
Vegas had some players that performed above expectations, but the real power move was all the draft capital they were given for NOT taking some players.
https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/GoldenKnightsRoster.jpg
Here’s a list of the draft picks. An ok group at best. The trades are where the team did good.
They weren’t “handed” anyone, but unless the GM and or Owners are geniuses it’s a bit sus that they were able to get Stone, Eichel, and Petro all in the span of 3 years…
The biggest gift was Marc Andre fleury. Expansion teams are supposed to go like a decade before they get a solid goalie.
We struck deals to get players on contracts their teams didn’t want to fulfill
It ended up paying off